Wednesday, September 2, 2009

Do What Too Few People Do - Speak Up

Recently I overheard a discussion between a 'believer' and another person and the conversation compelled me to speak up.

The church going individual was explaining how their church struggles with how to accept "gays". Coming from the standpoint that their church is taking the moral high ground, he said that their church also allows alcoholics to attend and that they are looking at treating "gays" the same way that they treat alcoholics who attend their church.

Now they could do as the Catholic Church has been doing and instead of calling them "gay", they could call them "Priest", but this particular person (seemingly an elder of sorts at the church he attends) said they would allow "gays" in but they would not be allowed to promote their lifestyle as alcoholics are not allowed to.

"Great," I thought. They've come up with a great solution - if they want to be called BIGOTS.

I couldn't let it go - I'm sure you can think of many reasons to be upset with such statements and approaches - I had to say something.

I joined the conversation (if you could say that), with a point about tolerance and how ignorant his comments were. "Gay" isn't a choice and I've never heard of "gay" people trying to convert people or to encourage "straight" people to choose their lifestyle.

Sexual oppression and control is at the center of Abrahamic religions and the result of it controls how many people vote in US elections. Abortion, gay rights, the definition of marriage, planned parenthood, birth control, death with dignity and stem cell research are divisive not because they are moral/immoral or ethical/unethical but because people believe the bible (inerrant, yet full of errors, word of god) commands its followers to take a particular side of the issue.

I suggest that if more people spoke up against such acts of hate that we’d be headed in the right direction. With the churches and its members receiving undue respect, especially in situations as these, people are afraid to speak up for what is right. If the bible suggests that homosexuality should not be tolerated, it is the bible that is wrong. If the bible suggests that birth control should be forbidden, the bible, again, is wrong. If the bible suggests that women are servants of men, the bible is wrong.

(I am not "pro-woman", I'm not "pro-gay", I'm "pro-shut-the-fuck-up-about-shit-which-should-not-matter-to-you" with a side of "pro-reduction-of-suffering" and two tablespoons of "stop-oppressing-people".)


NathanColquhoun said...

See Skeptic, this is why I like you. I think you are right on. For starters I think its ridiculous that we use terms like "gay" as a terms of a type of human where were are "struggling with how to accept them." If I was there, I would have probably joined in the conversation and asked something along the lines of how their struggle to accept gossipers, divorcees, people who support a horrible capitalist driven corporations and people who choose to love themselves more than others....etc. I wonder how that struggle went. People are so dumb.

I think people very easily put their own ideas and latch them onto the Bible...all of sudden their own interpretation becomes inerrant and they become arrogant (heck people do it with more than just the Bible).

So good for standing up...some advice though when talking to Christians...the whole gays don't have a choice argument never works with them....somehow you have to get them to admit that gays are human beings (it's hard i know) and then admit that they are human beings and then ask them if they still intentionally "sin" and then they say yes and then you can say fuck off at that point.

It's the modern day version of Jesus' whole line about he who is without sin cast the first still works today.

sarniaskeptic said...

Great points Nathan - I have to admit that the argument against sexual orientation is one that is so blatantly absurd that I don't even know where to start when addressing it.

NathanColquhoun said...

It's absurd if you don't come at it from with a history, but if someone claims that the Bible is your belief system, then it makes a little bit more sense to try and understand where they are coming from.

If someone understood let's say the cultural context of the Old Testament they would actually see that Israel was quite a tolerant and equal society compared to surrounding cultures at this time. Just take a look at the laws on how to treat slaves, and then find out how slaves were treated in surrounding nations. Or the poor, or even woman. Israel had revolutionary views of acceptance, tolerance and inclusion for the other, views that were unheard of for their particular historical setting.

Now fast forward into the 21st century, the world has been progressing and moving forward for thousands of years. Try and make any laws in the OT have any sort of relevance today and you will have quite a hard job on your hands (ie. A Year of Living Biblically).

If someone has a poor understanding of cultural and historical context they will always misread and misinterpret the Bible to suit their own beliefs and use it to promote their own systems of oppression that they aren't even aware they are in.

The Bible speaks nothing of committed homosexual relationships, just as it speaks nothing of the internet.